Comments on Israeli politics look strange from hereTypePad2010-08-04T16:37:20ZDavid Bognerhttps://www.treppenwitz.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.treppenwitz.com/2010/08/israeli-politics-look-strange-from-here/comments/atom.xml/Batya from Shiloh commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134861412b9970c2010-08-09T06:41:59Z2010-08-09T06:41:59ZBatya from Shilohhttp://shilohmusings.blogspot.comTo disengage isn't the same as to expel. The govt has an entire department for Orwellian Language.<p>To disengage isn't the same as to expel. The govt has an entire department for Orwellian Language.</p>Mike Spengler commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013486076979970c2010-08-06T16:08:38Z2010-08-06T16:08:38ZMike SpenglerOkay Dave, thanks for the clarification. Its a situation not dissimilar from a debate here started by some GOP senators...<p>Okay Dave, thanks for the clarification. Its a situation not dissimilar from a debate here started by some GOP senators who want to hold hearings on the opening phrase of the 14th Amendment. And, yeah, it can be a sticky argument on both sides... </p>Jordan Hirsch commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013486073f1d970c2010-08-06T15:33:51Z2010-08-06T15:33:51ZJordan HirschWell, that is true technically, but the residents of Gush Katif were also players in a geopolitical game that the...<p>Well, that is true technically, but the residents of Gush Katif were also players in a geopolitical game that the state decided was no longer cost effective. Was it callous? Yes! Was it ethnic cleansing? No, unless all you are interested in is winning the argument as opposed to statecraft, however ineptly played. Now, if you are asking whether Israel did a good job removing them, or whether the residents were appropriately warned about the risks involved in moving there to begin with, obviously the answer is no. It is also patently true that the compensation has been criminally bungled. </p>treppenwitz commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013486072ac7970c2010-08-06T15:16:01Z2010-08-06T15:16:01Ztreppenwitzhttp://www.treppenwitz.comJordan... if we were talking about troops, I would be right there with you. But when you are talking about...<p>Jordan... if we were talking about troops, I would be right there with you. But when you are talking about a civilian population, there are laws governing what may and may not be done. What was done in Gaza was ethnic cleansing by every definition.</p>Jordan Hirsch commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013486071303970c2010-08-06T14:53:54Z2010-08-06T14:53:54ZJordan HirschDavid, perhaps you missed the day in basic training where the officer taught you about a strategic withdrawal and expelling...<p>David, perhaps you missed the day in basic training where the officer taught you about a strategic withdrawal and expelling people. Now we can discuss whether or not pulling out of Gush Katif was a good idea, and probably agree on much of the issue, but it is a form of rhetorical slight of hand to use the freighted language of the most extreme elements of that debate as the starting off point for a specious comparision between a possibly misguided shortening of lines in a political-military situation and throwing innocent third parties out of your country. </p>treppenwitz commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef01348604b3b4970c2010-08-06T03:48:19Z2010-08-06T03:48:19Ztreppenwitzhttp://www.trepppenwitz.comrutimizrachi... He has no conscience... what possible use would he have for memory? Yossi... An over-generalization. But sadly, it has...<p>rutimizrachi... He has no conscience... what possible use would he have for memory?</p>
<p>Yossi... An over-generalization. But sadly, it has the ring of truth.</p>
<p>At The back of the Hill... While I know you were being sarcastic, many here might not be familiar with your politics. Far too many people (including one commenter on this thread) seem to have trouble understanding that when you forcibly evict someone from their home and destroy their community just because of their religion or race... it is called ethnic cleansing, no matter where you send them or why.</p>
<p>Simon... You are correct. In one case, the Israeli government is exercising its right to deport foreigners who it can ill afford to absorb. In the other, Israeli citizens, who were living legally in towns that the government helped establish, were suddenly vilified, branded as criminals, and deported to defacto refugee status in their own country. Good call.</p>
<p>Zahava... Thought it might.</p>
<p>Mike Spengler... There is a fine line between illegal and legal in this scenario. Yes, many of the workers we are talking about here were (and in some cases, still are) legal. They came here as manual laborers on limited visas. However, many have overstayed their visas, and some have created families (a violation of their visas) here which the State of Israel is under no legal obligation to support (we'll leave the moral obligation argument for another day). Picture an Indian software programmer who gets a limited work visa to come to the US and work for a sponsoring high tech start-up. He meets another foreign worker, they overstay their visas... start a family and their children need medical care, education, etc. Is the US really responsible for these people or should they be deported? I can argue both sides, so don't think for a moment that the issue is cut and dried. But some very savvy political types have crafted the argument to focus only on the children while ignoring how those children came to be in Israel (i.e. their parents who are no longer living within the strict lines of the law). In my humble opinion, Israel can ill afford to become the refuge of every foreign national who decides that a temporary work visa is an invitation to immigrate permanently.</p>
<p>RaggedyMom ... You crack me up. :-)</p>RaggedyMom commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013486040a8d970c2010-08-06T01:00:42Z2010-08-06T01:00:42ZRaggedyMomLike. Oh, wait, is this not Facebook?<p>Like. Oh, wait, is this not Facebook?</p>Mike Spengler commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134860151ad970c2010-08-05T15:30:17Z2010-08-05T15:30:17ZMike SpenglerDave writes "...illegal immigrant children..." Okay, now I'm confused... My understanding is that they're talking about the children of foriegn...<p> Dave writes "...illegal immigrant children..." </p>
<p> Okay, now I'm confused... My understanding is that they're talking about the children of foriegn guest workers. NOT "illegal immigrants." Were not these workers (primarily Asian if I've got it right) invited in to replace Palestinian/Arab workers? (I recall an old New Yorker Mag profile of Ariel Sharon where it pointed out that the workers on his farm were mainly Filipino). </p>
<p> Clarification please...</p>zahava commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013485ff607e970c2010-08-05T06:58:59Z2010-08-05T06:58:59Zzahavahttp://www.zatar.co.ilIf it's any consolation, they look just as strange from here!<p>If it's any consolation, they look just as strange from here!</p>Simon commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013485fd0cb6970c2010-08-04T21:00:08Z2010-08-04T21:00:08ZSimonhttp://smontagu.org/blog/Oh puh-lease. How can you compare the two?<p>Oh puh-lease. How can you compare the two?</p>At The back of the Hill commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013485fcd0c0970c2010-08-04T20:06:56Z2010-08-04T20:06:56ZAt The back of the Hillhttp://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/No no no! That was an 'inpulsion'! Not an expulsion. That weren't kicked out, they were kicked back in. It's...<p>No no no! That was an 'inpulsion'! Not an expulsion. </p>
<p>That weren't kicked out, they were kicked back in.</p>
<p>It's all about the words, Trepp, all about the words.</p>Yossi commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013485fc4822970c2010-08-04T18:27:51Z2010-08-04T18:27:51ZYossiLiberal Jewish souls are only awakened by the pain of Non-Jews. They are immune to the pain of Jewish children.<p>Liberal Jewish souls are only awakened by the pain of Non-Jews.</p>
<p>They are immune to the pain of Jewish children.</p>rutimizrachi commented on 'Israeli politics look strange from here'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f2d83d33970b2010-08-04T16:53:50Z2010-08-04T16:53:50Zrutimizrachihttp://rutimizrachi.blogspot.com/Good call, Trep. Ironic how it's so close to the anniversary of the Gush Katif expulsion, and Ehud's memory didn't...<p>Good call, Trep. Ironic how it's so close to the anniversary of the Gush Katif expulsion, and Ehud's memory didn't even get a little jogged.</p>