Comments on Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?TypePad2007-06-19T09:38:07ZDavid Bognerhttps://www.treppenwitz.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.treppenwitz.com/2007/06/rewards_are_by_/comments/atom.xml/Ruth commented on 'Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503edbb488332007-06-24T09:51:42Z2008-02-14T04:51:46ZRuthhttp://beer7.wordpress.comHi David, I have dabbled quite a bit in international law. The first thing you should realize that the concept...<p>Hi David,</p>
<p>I have dabbled quite a bit in international law.</p>
<p>The first thing you should realize that the concept of "punishment" does not rightly belong to the international laws governing warfare. "Crime and punishment" is the connection. Punishment is meted out within a law-abiding society to maintain the rule of law.</p>
<p>Punishment for war crimes is supposed to come after war in an international court (see Ruanda, former Jugoslavia). This is not the issue here.</p>
<p>In war the aim is to prevent the enemy from doing or continuing doing something. Not all actions are acceptable to do that. For example the specific targeting of civilians is not. However, collateral damage has only to be weight against the advantage gained against the enemy. It is not per se forbidden. Any comabattants using civilians as human shields bear full responsiblity for any attack on these civilians. Civilians volunteering to be human shields give up their right to protection.</p>Back of the Hill commented on 'Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e55052689588342007-06-19T22:09:41Z2008-02-14T04:52:15ZBack of the Hillhttp://atthebackofthehill.blogspot.com/Collective responsibility? Hmmm, given that so much of the anti-Israel spew is anti-Semitic, and that so many of the anti-Israel...<p>Collective responsibility?</p>
<p>Hmmm, given that so much of the anti-Israel spew is anti-Semitic, and that so many of the anti-Israel activists are anti-Semites, I tend to assume that all of them are anti-Semites.</p>
<p>Yes, I know that some of them aren't. But their choice of associates, allies, and positions serve to tarr them.</p>
<p>I do not know, and cannot assume, that they are NOT that way untill they prove it. Untill then, it is reasonable to not assume that they are 'untarred'. </p>
<p>Not all of the Lebanese civilians..... <br />
but in order to be considered innocent, given that appearances strongly suggest otherwise, a token disassociation would be probably be a reasonable requirement. </p>Schvach commented on 'Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5505267d388342007-06-19T20:22:02Z2008-02-14T04:52:09ZSchvachhttp://schvach.blogspot.comDoesn't the Chumash prohibit punishment by proxy? The individual is to be judged and held accountable by his fellow, by...<p>Doesn't the Chumash prohibit <br />
punishment by proxy? The individual is to be judged and held accountable by his fellow,<br />
by the instrument of lawful adjudication. However, the enemy is one's enemy, and a mass attack on intended victims, I think, should be answered in kind. <br />
Also, today is the Lubavitcher<br />
Rebbe's 13th Yahrzeit -mamesh! <br />
</p>Elisson commented on 'Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e55052655488342007-06-19T19:04:21Z2008-02-14T04:51:43ZElissonhttp://elisson1.blogspot.comThe world also doesn't care if Arabs kill Jews. But if Jews defend themselves, it's "Cet animal est trés méchant;...<p>The world also doesn't care if Arabs kill Jews. But if Jews defend themselves, it's "Cet animal est trés méchant; quand on l'attaque, il se défend."</p>Jack commented on 'Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5505265cb88342007-06-19T15:47:17Z2008-02-14T04:51:49ZJackhttp://wwwjackbenimble.blogspot.com/The recent events in Gaza have shown yet again that the world doesn't care if Arabs kill Arabs. Stick Olmert...<p>The recent events in Gaza have shown yet again that the world doesn't care if Arabs kill Arabs.</p>
<p>Stick Olmert in a kaffiyeh and no one will say anything if he orders the IDF to respond to the Qassams.</p>antares commented on 'Rewards are collective... so why not punishments?'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503eda1988332007-06-19T15:07:48Z2008-02-14T04:51:28ZantaresDear David That's a lot of anger and frustration in one post. Venting is not good for the soul. Believe...<p>Dear David</p>
<p>That's a lot of anger and frustration in one post. Venting is not good for the soul. Believe me, catharsis does not work.</p>
<p>The New England metaphor is a sword that cuts two ways. The honor system works in New England because even visitors from 100 miles away share the same values. 100 miles away from you, no one shares your values.</p>
<p>I am no pacifist. Those who preach that violence never solved anything are willfully ignorant of history. Rome solved its Carthiginian problem with violence. Violence ended slavery in the United States, genocide in Nazi Germany and Japanese-occupied China, and religious wars in Switzerland.</p>
<p>What distinguishes Israel from Hezbollah, Hamas, and the-terrorist-of-the-month club is that Israel employs force with ethical restraint. This is the mark of a soldier: a soldier protects a civiliztion. He is a hero. Hezbollah employs force indiscriminately. This is the mark of a brigand: a brigand destroys and kills. He is a criminal.</p>
<p>You do not want soldiers of the IDF to become brigands. You do not want the soldiers of the IDF to lose their souls. "What would it profit a man if he gain the whole world but lose his own soul?"</p>
<p>I realize that I offer no external solution to the problem. My reason is too small to devise a solution to so great a problem. But there may be an internal solution for you in this prayer: God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.</p>
<p>And remember that Yonah loves you.</p>