Comments on "Not now... I'm on the phone with...TypePad2007-02-11T11:59:17ZDavid Bognerhttps://www.treppenwitz.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.treppenwitz.com/2007/02/not_now_im_on_t/comments/atom.xml/Ezzie commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550525a7f88342007-02-14T04:15:55Z2008-02-14T04:49:53ZEzziehttp://serandez.blogspot.comI don't know if this was covered in a previous comment (sorry), and not to get into a whole economic...<p>I don't know if this was covered in a previous comment (sorry), and not to get into a whole economic debate... but Bibi's policies helped the underclass more in the long run than previous policies. I remember my charedi cousins being unhappy and worried about it - and actually debating with them about it - when he first got the FM job; in the end, they were satisfied that it hadn't screwed them</p>Jack commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ed54e88332007-02-12T15:37:43Z2008-02-14T04:50:38ZJackhttp://wwwjackbenimble.blogspot.com/Jack... How may times did I say 'uh'? :-) Couldn't tell you, that thick accent was rough to understand. ;)<p><i>Jack... How may times did I say 'uh'? :-)</i></p>
<p>Couldn't tell you, that thick accent was rough to understand. ;)</p>treppenwitz commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ed1b988332007-02-12T14:31:28Z2008-02-14T04:50:05Ztreppenwitzhttp://www.treppenwitz.comDave (Balashon)... I agree that the PM sets the tone for the country and right now Bibi is broadcasting nothing...<p>Dave (Balashon)... I agree that the PM sets the tone for the country and right now Bibi is broadcasting nothing but confidence. Everywhere else I look a see politicians wringing their hands, apologizing for Israel's existence and running around Europe looking for someone to surrender to.</p>
<p>Judy... No, I didn't leave it out. What I did is attribute some (even most) of his performance as PM to his having been saddled with Oslo. He also had to contend with a very partisan political arena where much of the left still hadn't figured out that Oslo was a death trap.</p>
<p>Jack... How may times did I say 'uh'? :-)</p>
<p>Irina... 'Doing better than the last few PMs' isn't that big a trick. :-)</p>
<p>Oceanguy... I really didn't give it the treatment I wanted to here on the site... and unfortunately the preparation I did for the call was undermined by the lack of time for questions.</p>
<p>soccerdad... Good points all.</p>
<p>Pam... [looking around]... nope, nobody else here.</p>
<p>It's Full of Stars... I am in my 20s (my second 20s that is). :-)</p>SnoopyTheGoon commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550525afa88342007-02-12T13:35:46Z2008-02-14T04:49:57ZSnoopyTheGoonhttp://simplyjews.blogspot.com/Sorry, David, I missed this thread for a while. About Bibi's failures, to name a few: 1. Leaving Hebron to...<p>Sorry, David, I missed this thread for a while. About Bibi's failures, to name a few:</p>
<p>1. Leaving Hebron to its current state and fate. I do not have to describe the situation there, do I? </p>
<p>2. The Meshaal fiasco </p>
<p>3. Yakking incessantly and vaguely about his ability to make peace with Syria and delivering zilch. You may have missed this part...</p>
<p>4. Running a populist divisive election campaign, where he addressed the lowest common denominator in our society, being derisive and insulting about the so called "elites" (read middle class Ashkenazi - you, in fact).</p>
<p>5. Behaving like a common thug in the infamous series of Likud conferences. Using his then puppets (Lieberman/Hanegbi) to pressure, intimidate and even, with "unexplained" assistance of semi-criminal elements to physically attack dissenting Likud members.</p>
<p>6. Disengagement from Gaza - good of you to remind this. Just conside when exactly Bibi left the government? </p>
<p>I could go on, but should I?</p>
<p>And re your Dimaggio parallel - again, with all due respect - without the burgeoning high-tech and increased flow of cash from taxes on it, all his reforms wouldn't have helped.</p>
<p>What can I say - we all should beware of him - he is an excellent speaker and could easily talk our socks off. </p>
<p>Is it the most critical pre-requisite for a PM? I am not sure.</p>It's Full of Stars commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503eccf088332007-02-12T08:58:48Z2008-02-14T04:49:15ZIt's Full of StarsTo me you sound really young like you are in your 20's. (David) I'm in amazement of history, past and...<p>To me you sound really young like you are in your 20's. (David)</p>
<p>I'm in amazement of history, past and present. Currently I'm reading "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Richard Rhodes. With an insight to history, I can't believe that the majority of countries take the situation in Iran so lightly. </p>
<p>In the book, many of the scientists were from Jewish descent. Einstein, among many, had a death threat placed upon him for "corrupting German science" (and having Jewish ancestry of course.) Einstein, when he heard of fission, said "Daran habe ich gar nicht gedacht!" (I never thought of that!) It was fascinating to read about their personal lives, as the rise of fascism slowly forced them out of Austria and Germany.</p>
<p>What was most amazing is that the scientists discussed in detail the future of the world and what these new "gadgets" meant. Oppenheimer, upon learning about fission, first said that it was “impossible.” Then, a day later, after doing some equations upon the board, looked out of his study over the streets of Manhattan, held his hands together as if he was holding a ball, and said "A little bomb like that ... and it would all disappear." He came to his own peace about his work in the Manhattan project, and thought, perhaps, it might mean the end to major wars, for fear of consequence of the use of such a weapon, 1000 times stronger than the ones that fell upon Japan. (Thank Teller for that.) Interestly, both Japan and German had started to develop the bomb, but fortunately had failed to do so before the United States and the end of the war.</p>
<p>Fast forward to the comedy that is today. Somehow sanity has reigned for so long; the most amazing thing is that we have not blown ourselves to bits already. How possibly could so many years have gone by without one of these things going off? (The modern ones, not the toys dropped on Japan)</p>
<p>Anyway, now we have some crackpot leader in Iran, who is about to get his hands on a basic form of that weapon (I hope their scientists blow themselves up developing it.)</p>
<p>History is more amazing than any story book could ever write. I just want to shake people watching Britney Spears on “Entertainment Tonight” saying “don’t you get it?” … but there is no one to talk to.</p>
<p>So I’ve learned to adjust myself to the insanity that is current history and focus instead upon raising my children well and not worry excessively about the current world events that even Shakespeare couldn’t invent. </p>
<p>Feeling like just an observer in such a large and amazing world, I'm glad to see that someone is giving practical thought about Iran. I just want a safe world to raise the kids, and so many people seem to want to bring it all down. God have mercy on us.</p>Pam commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ed0ab88332007-02-12T06:04:21Z2008-02-14T04:49:54ZPamHeard him talk to our small group of (largely) Americans last early summer -- I was extremely impressed with his...<p>Heard him talk to our small group of (largely) Americans last early summer -- I was extremely impressed with his intellect and grasp of history, and most of all - his ability to express himself (OHHH how we miss that in a leader...) He was not the single most arrogant man I've heard, but smug, yes. </p>
<p>I really agree that he presents Israel's position completely unapologetically, clearly, and sounds like a moderate doing it (I think Dan Gillerman does that, too).</p>
<p>And although I'm a domestic liberal, his explanation of some of the bass-ackwards incentives built into the Israeli economy, which he only began to revamp, convinced me. He really sounded self-admiring discussing this, but he made a good case for his stringent decisions, and why he stuck out the job.</p>
<p>But bottom line -- he's another retread -- don't you have ANYONE newer and cleaner with a military or intel background? </p>soccerdad commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550525bb988342007-02-12T03:50:42Z2008-02-14T04:50:04Zsoccerdadhttp://profile.typekey.com/dhg4/I'd argue that Oslo wasn't his only albatross. Netanyahu, like his successor, Ehud Barak benefitted from an unusually quick ascent...<p>I'd argue that Oslo wasn't his only albatross. Netanyahu, like his successor, Ehud Barak benefitted from an unusually quick ascent to PM. (In fact one thing that allowed his rise was voting against the Likud for the direct election of PM in the early 90's.) But when one rises like that, one will step on many toes. And the feet attached to those toes are all too happy to kick the stepper when he's down (or headed there.)</p>
<p>Netanyahu wasn't only contending with Oslo. He was contending with the Clinton adminstration that gave a free pass to Arafat. He was contending with a vindictive AG who managed to prevent three of his cabinet appointments. </p>
<p>But I also think that he was contending with his inflated confidence in his own eloquence and presence. Once he became the issue, it didn't take long for Israelis to latch onto the next, next best thing and boot him from office.</p>Oceanguy commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ecd9c88332007-02-12T01:32:26Z2008-02-14T04:49:23ZOceanguyhttp://Oceanguy.comI was impressed with the way, on the call, that he handled the "all talk, no action" accusation from one...<p>I was impressed with the way, on the call, that he handled the "all talk, no action" accusation from one questioner.</p>
<p>For really the first time, at least for me, he made it perfectly clear how that albatross was put around his neck and how he was forced to deal with it. Another thing... it is awfully easy for an American to be seduced by his American accent.<br />
I'm glad you offered your thoughts on the call... I was much too lazy to deal with it properly, thanks for taking the time.</p>Irina commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ed0d888332007-02-11T20:52:21Z2008-02-14T04:49:56ZIrinahttp://sicat222.blogspot.comAfter following the Israeli politics closely for the last few years, I have to admit I'm suspicious and have my...<p>After following the Israeli politics closely for the last few years, I have to admit I'm suspicious and have my reservations just about anyone in the current political arena. Having said that, I have to say that Bibi is one of those people I would prefer seeing over everyone else. Given the limitations of choice, unfortunately. I do agree with Snoopy on one of the things, in that he did *appear* to give up on his principles too easily - but he definitely did a more convincing job than the last few PMs.</p>Jack commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e55052596188342007-02-11T16:23:04Z2008-02-14T04:49:43ZJackhttp://wwwjackbenimble.blogspot.com/Interesting. A voice to go with the words.<p>Interesting. A voice to go with the words.</p>Judy commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550525aaf88342007-02-11T15:47:29Z2008-02-14T04:49:54ZJudyhttp://adloyada.typepad.com/adloyadaDavid, what you seem to have left out of your review is BibI's previous record as PM. Yes, he talked...<p>David, what you seem to have left out of your review is BibI's previous record as PM. Yes, he talked very big before he got elected, but it was under his watch that Israel went through a particularly bad slew of terror attacks, and he seemed to have achieved little in fighting them. By contrast, Sharon's achievements in fighting the second intifada were arguably greater.</p>
<p>I think his best contribution was in being an effective Finance minister. I don't see him coming out with any substantive policies just now (or at the time of the last election) that would suggest he could make a better job of it than the present incumbents.</p>
<p>Despite your contempt for the current Kadmia government (widely shared across Israel), I don't think you've demonstrated that he offers a better way forward. All politicians are venal opportunists (sorry, <i>pragmatists</i>); there was good reason that so many of Kadima were people who had walked out of Likud and Labour. The tragedy was perhaps that they were over dependent on Sharon's combination of political and military astuteness.</p>
<p>Whatever was wrong with the way the Gaza disengagement and its aftermath were handled, it did yield more political capital for Israel in terms of leverage with the international community. </p>
<p>And the Lebanon war could perhaps have yielded decisive results for Israel if it had been better run (as you've suggested yourself).</p>
<p>Bibi does not seem to me to have had much to say about how his military background would have led him to make different decisions from those of Peretz, Olmert and Livni. It's not so much the Sayeret Maktal spirit that was absent as mastery of logistics, and the basics of strategy when fighting deeply entrenched terrorist groups armed with small scale and larger missiles supplied by a country with the financial and political clout of Iran.</p>
<p>Speaking as an outside observer, I think Bibi's current role in building up an international front against Iran looks too much like solo grandstanding--and, incidentally, getting him off the hook of demonstrating what he would do better than the present government.<br />
<br />
By focusing so much on the threat of Iran's nuclear bomb, he also seems to me to divert from what he used to do so well, which is to bring home the importance of stopping the cash flow for the current terror infrastructure. </p>
<p>It's so revealing that on his website, there are no entries in English for this year, and as far as I can see, even those in Hebrew are focused on yesterday's issues.</p>Dave (Balashon) commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ed0ac88332007-02-11T14:57:39Z2008-02-14T04:49:54ZDave (Balashon)http://www.balashon.comI worked in Malcha, in the same building where Bibi's post PM office was. He still had on the door...<p>I worked in Malcha, in the same building where Bibi's post PM office was. He still had on the door "Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu". At the time, I remember hearing that he was trying to institute the American practice of continuing to call an ex-leader by his title.</p>
<p>I've been recently reading a biography of Ariel Sharon. One thing I've learned from there is that there's a significant difference between the PM and any other minister. It's hard to describe exactly, but the PM sets the mood for the country. Bibi was an excellent foreign minister and finance minister. I imagine he'd do a great job at probably any other ministerial post. But as PM he just didn't put out the right feeling - always on the defensive, always dealing with another scandal (not necessarily corruption, but some "issue".) </p>
<p>However, I don't see anyone else on the horizon who could do a better job now. And he seems to be doing a good job of getting the right people to support him - Bogey, Yossi Peled, etc.</p>treppenwitz commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550525ad488342007-02-11T13:32:16Z2008-02-14T04:49:56Ztreppenwitzhttp://www.treppenwitz.comSTG... 1. Some of the cons You attribute to Bibi are clearly not the same as those I mentioned. Please...<p>STG... </p>
<p>1. Some of the cons You attribute to Bibi are clearly not the same as those I mentioned. Please give specifics. </p>
<p>2. As to Bibi having proved the 'Peter Principle', that is exactly the opposite of my contention. I think Oslo was an albatross around his neck that would have doomed any PM who won that particular election. Oh, and are you seriously suggesting that Arik stood by his principles??? The disengagement from Gaza might suggest otherwise. </p>
<p>3. Yeah, and Joe Dimaggio just <em>happened</em> to always be in just the right place so he wouldn't have to run for fly balls. The guy deserves credit for much of Israel's current prosperity and anyone who says otherwise is (IMHO) just selling sour grapes. </p>
<p>4. I agree that a compassionate government can't make economic policy while looking exclusively at a P & L ledger. But it can't ignore the books either.</p>SnoopyTheGoon commented on '"Not now... I'm on the phone with...'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503ed04888332007-02-11T13:16:03Z2008-02-14T04:49:51ZSnoopyTheGoonhttp://simplyjews.blogspot.com/Allow me to butt in with a few remarks: 1. The Foreign Mimister post could be exactly the spot where...<p>Allow me to butt in with a few remarks:</p>
<p>1. The Foreign Mimister post could be exactly the spot where Bibi could reach his peak (if appointed). I am afraid that the move up for him was proved not feasible (Peter principle). Some of the cons you have already listed.</p>
<p>2. The problem is not only that Bibi got the Oslo paper to cope with, but that he frequently has done exactly the opposite of that announced by his own self. Usually after a visit in the White House, where he was told what to do. Unlike Arik, he gave up on his principles too easily.</p>
<p>3. Re his career in finance ministry: we tend to forget that it so happened that the US (and most of the world) economy became bullyish soon after Bibi's appointement. I shall never tire of quoting (imprecisely) Thomas Mann: "The agriculture minister that serves during rainy years is a good agriculture minister".</p>
<p>4. Agreeing with your remark on social issues (not that I liked that "underclasses" term) - I would like to strengthen it. There was a Israeli minister (for the life of me I cannot remember the name) who said that Israeli is not an economic business. He really meant that treated like a profit a loss center, Israel will lose half of its citizens quite soon. Ain't it the truth?</p>
<p>Generally on Bibi - our common self-consolation is that his rivals are worse. Ehehe... </p>