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Friday, January 13, 2006
Photo Friday (Vol. LII) ['unchanged hillside' edition]
Unfortunately there were only three people who responded with pictures of their cookie jars/tins so I will have to put off the 'carnival of the cookie jars' until next week (or until such time as you lazy people get off your collective butts and send me some pictures).
This week I will share the end of the story I began a couple of weeks ago regarding the hillside opposite our house.
If you remember, a bunch of teens and young adults had decided to squat on a parcel of land that is either State or Jewish owned (I haven't seen any documents personally). They had erected a small temporary building on the spot and began waiting for the inevitable visit from the police and army.
Within a week the building had been torn down by the authorities and nothing remained but a pile of wood where the structure had stood.
However the following week a new initiative was undertaken... this time to plant a vineyard rather than build a structure. The reasoning behind this was that all of the other vineyards on the hillside and in the valley below were planted illegally on state or Jewish owned land... so why would the police object to one more?
So this past Friday many of the same teenagers and adults went out to the hillside to engage in a little agricultural protest. I first noticed what was going on when I looked out my back window. It looked like this:
Not clear enough? Here... let's zoom in a bit. Note the soldiers and police standing off by themselves:
I decided to go down and have a closer look and met some girls unloading grape vines on the way:
The Army and police would not allow the vines to be planted and a calm, but firm discussion ensued:
In the end there was no real confrontation, but a policeman wanted closeup video footage of everyone there for future reference. I have to admit that I found that a bit intimidating considering nobody had been in the least disrespectful to the authorities (unless you count Nadia Matar... which I don't).
In the end, everyone began to disperse. Many of the soldiers, police and settlers shook hands and exchanged 'Shabbat Shaloms' before heading off the hillside.
Personally I don't see that anything positive was accomplished. I would rather see a bunch of lawyers forcing the government to address the settler position in much the same way that the Arabs have learned to use the courts.
But I'm just one person with an opinion that doesn't count for much.
Shabbat Shalom.
Posted by David Bogner on January 13, 2006 | Permalink
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In my house, we don't have a cookie jar...it's either willpower or a lack thereof...I could take a picture of the kitchen cabinet in which said cookies (and other sweets) are stored, if you would like..
I'm confused about one thing here- who was trying to plant/build illegally on the land? Sorry if it seemed obvious and I'm just not getting it...
Wishing you & your family a good Shabbos!!
Posted by: tnspr569 | Jan 13, 2006 3:46:27 PM
Shabbat shalom!
Happy (big one) Birthday, Zahava! :)
Posted by: val | Jan 13, 2006 3:59:38 PM
You ought to have your straw man graphic made into some kind of business card.
And then the next time you show up at some kind of protest you could walk up to the filming officer and with a very large smile on your face present him with one of those cards as a thank you for his hard work.
I bet that would make for a good blog post. Doc Bean or PT might even be able to write it up and submit it as part of a case study to one of their journals.
Ok, do as you well. Have a good Shabbos.
Posted by: Jack | Jan 13, 2006 4:08:54 PM
1. Great, now you're in some MPEG in a police file of potential troublemakers. If they ever connect this movie to circulating stories of a man eating a bowl of gravy for lunch in the cafeteria of a defense contractor, you're probably going to jail.
B. I don't have a cookie jar. We just keep cookies in the pantry with other food. Sorry.
iii. Shabbat shalom.
Posted by: Doctor Bean | Jan 13, 2006 4:15:48 PM
So why don't you help out and use the courts like the Arabs do?
Posted by: Seth | Jan 13, 2006 4:24:26 PM
We keep our sweets in the oven. Want a picture of that?
My kitchen is tiny and all the space is taken, so anything transient gets stored in the oven with the pans and utensils. And, no, we don't cook. :)
Posted by: jg | Jan 13, 2006 5:27:14 PM
That's pretty sad. I guess older settlers should probably use the courts... but all those girls looked pretty young. I guess they were trying to do something of their own to contribute to the general effort. : (
Posted by: Irina | Jan 13, 2006 6:47:56 PM
I don't have a cookie jar, either. Everything goes into the freezer to ward off spontaneous noshing.
Shabbat Shalom!
Posted by: Essie | Jan 13, 2006 7:57:15 PM
Well it was a great object lesson for the kids at least. Bet they won't forget it. Perhaps it will arm them with some semblance of an understanding of reality so that when they encounter the Left and their fairey tales they will recognize their dissembling.
Posted by: Scott | Jan 13, 2006 8:47:27 PM
Well, I think I've said all I ever needed too previously, but I do agree with you on your main conclusion - I would much rather this be addressed through the courts, for all kinds of reasons. Has this ever been done before?
Posted by: Lisoosh | Jan 13, 2006 9:12:52 PM
Cookie Jars are for people who actually bake cookies. The store bought ones come in their own little boxes and stuff.
No cookie jar here.
Posted by: Shevy | Jan 13, 2006 9:19:39 PM
uh... does anybody seriously think our court system will rule impartially, granting the settlers their equal rights under law and/or affirming the illegality of Arab agricultural squatters?
To think that, you have to ignore over a decade of consistently politicized readings, rulings, and legal double-standards.
There's a reason why the settler movement isn't turning to the courts.
Posted by: Ben-David | Jan 14, 2006 6:31:02 PM
Ben David - so your fear of a lack of impartial ruling dictates not even trying?
Taking it to court would encourage a full on debate of the legal issues in the public forum. It would force the Israeli public and the government to come to terms with where it stands and (hopefully) develop a more reasoned and comprehensive policy. The settler movement seems to feel mistreated and relegated to second class status, the "left" wing feels Israeli policy is dominated by the settler movement. The law allows a solid framework to debate and deal with the issues while putting emotion on the back burner.
Posted by: Lisoosh | Jan 14, 2006 7:49:13 PM
Lisoosh wrote:
Taking it to court would encourage a full on debate of the legal issues in the public forum.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
What public forum?
Throughout this past spring and summer, we witnessed massive violations of Israeli citizens' legal rights to assemble and speak in opposition to government policy. And delegitimization of entire swathes of political opinion.
This campaign was fully implemented by all broadcast media (which are a government monopoly here in Israel) and was abetted by a left-leaning press - which is concentrated in just a few hands in this small country. The head of the Israeli union of journalists publicly called for the press to "guard Sharon like an ethrog".
This comes after two solid decades in which dissenting voices - like the Arutz 7 radio station - were shut down, and the full force of government-controlled media was used to demonize and delegitimize opinions that, going by election results, are solidly mainstream.
There is no "public forum" in which these issues can be raised - an increasing number of Israelis are learning to treat the media as citizens behind the Iron Curtain once did: as official propaganda mouthpieces.
The media's response to a government that boarded buses to stop citizens from attending a protest rally - was a yawn.
Police arrested minors for handing out leaflets - and the judiciary's response was to suggest that these girls be sent to secular families for "re-education".
What "public forum" is there to appeal to?
I know that you are a sincere poster about Israel on many blogs, but... to come at this point and blandly equate the settler's assertions that the deck is stacked against them with the left's wild projections of settler power (!) requires an incredible ignorance of what has happened here over two decades - culminating in a PM elected by a landslide to put an end to unilateral withdrawals, only to impose just that policy due to pressure from the press and judiciary. What does this scenario - and the tragic destruction of many settlers' lives - say about who REALLY wields the power in Israel?
We really have to face up to how far Israel has progressed on the path to a totalitarian, oligarchical regime - especially during Sharon's tenure.
Since the 1970s there has been simmering tension - political and cultural - between the socialist elite that lost power and those who have gained power. All the debates about the peace process are underlaid by this power struggle.
It's also quite clear that the left is firmly entrenched in Israel's media and judiciary - and that it wields enormous, undemocratic control over the "public forum" in which you think things can be openly debated.
Anyone following events here must face up to the lack of any such impartial "public forum" - that is, to the increasingly non-democratic nature of the state.
Posted by: Ben-David | Jan 14, 2006 8:39:28 PM
Ben David - you said:
"I know that you are a sincere poster about Israel on many blogs, but... to come at this point and blandly equate the settler's assertions that the deck is stacked against them with the left's wild projections of settler power (!) requires an incredible ignorance of what has happened here over two decades ".
I'll try not to be insulted.
Just to clarify. Between the years 1987 and 1997 I spent many many years living in Israel. A couple in the Jordan Valley, a couple on the coast and several in Jerusalem itself. My Hebrew is fluent and I married an Israeli whos family still live there - Mizrachi Masorti Jerusalemites to the core. I was part of the secular society that lives in Jerusalem and I am sure you are aware of the tensions that simmer between the different groups there.
One of the reasons I visit this and several other blogs is because I realized that even in close proximity (and maybe because of) there was a section of society (for want of a better term) that I was acquainted with but didn't really KNOW and I wanted to take the opportunity to actually listen to and understand a different viewpoint.
You don't need to agree with everything or even anything that I say or believe, but please don't insult my experience or knowledge without knowing me. Perhaps you will reread your own post and consider what I said about removing emotion from the equation.
That said. I will be happy to read and respond to your post if David doesn't mind and I would certainly be interested in hearing what others think about what you have said.
Posted by: Lisoosh | Jan 14, 2006 9:16:36 PM
Lisoosh:
We've had similar exchanges before elsewhere in the Israeli blogosphere. You know me and my opinions well enough to know that I mean no insult.
It's very nice to try and understand each other. But there must also be clarity about the actual situation.
The actual situation is that there is no impartial "public forum" of the sort you describe here in Israel.
There are any number of people striving to "understand" the many "narratives" of the mideast conflict. Many of these people seem to get "insulted" when the time comes to draw actual conclusions of fact - conclusions that sometimes do damage to their worldview, and even to their self-perception as "tolerant, even-handed" people.
I'm glad to hear that you lived here for a while - then I do not have the enormous task of impressing on you that Israel is a real place, with real people - and not just a theoretical problem.
So:
What is the conclusion that YOU draw from actual events - from the 40-year-long judiciary attack on Jewish property ownership in Hebron, to the recent court rulings that branded Jewish villages that wanted to exclude Arab members as "racist" while allowing Arab municipalities to enforce "judenrein" rules (and both cases took place *within* the Green Line)?
The Arabs have bombarded Israel's Supreme Court with appeals on the "disengagement fence" - and amazingly, our Supreme Court took the extreme position that Israel is an "occupying power" and therefor not entitled to retain ANY land for security purposes - in other words, the court contradicted the arguments made by Israel before the World Court, siding with its enemies.
Did you read or hear about any of this in the Israeli media?
Then what is the CONCLUSION - the logical assertion that flows from the facts?
Many, many people are unwilling (or "insulted") by this final but crucial step - actually drawing conclusions from the facts. They are content with hand-wringing or fine-sounding statements - usually because they're not interested in reality if it conflicts with their preconceptions.
But those of us who have to live under this (increasingly undemocratic) regime don't have the luxury of turning away from reality. Neither do those who really care about Israel.
What are the facts? Do they support the left-winger's claim that "the settlers control the government" - Yes or No?
If the answer is "no" - that in fact, huge efforts have been expended to disenfranchise the settlers over the past decade, culminating in their being turned out of their homes! - then what is the point of presenting both claims as equal?
Posted by: Ben-David | Jan 14, 2006 10:50:39 PM
Ben David -
I'm sorry you feel so disenfranchised, I really do.
A week or so back I laid out my position pretty clearly in a comment I spent a lot of time on; rather than reiterate feel free to read it and argue with it however you like.
The older I get, the more I admire the law. That would pertain to Jewish law as well as its modern version. The more I learn, the more aware I become of the wisdom of having laws and a clear and methodical method of making and enforcing them. They hold society together in a way nothing else can. Not everyone has to like them and certainly not everyone feels that they are fair but they provide structure and a measure of equality that nothing else can.
Posted by: Lisoosh | Jan 14, 2006 11:22:19 PM
David, thanks for the pics. I have a lot of respect for those kids standing up for what they believe in and the form of activism they choose.
Ben David....
"There are any number of people striving to "understand" the many "narratives" of the mideast conflict. Many of these people seem to get "insulted" when the time comes to draw actual conclusions of fact - conclusions that sometimes do damage to their worldview, and even to their self-perception as "tolerant, even-handed" people."
Well said. It is a painful reality, but what are the options? Do we really think at the core of an Israeli soul, that they want to break up and give away it's land? Land that they purchased and pioneered, was legally entitled to, land that they lost and then fought and won back? Do we really think that an Israeli believes that by doing so, Palestinian terrorist groups will seize to do any more violence? Israelis are not ignorant fools. Isn't it saying something for them that knowing what they are up against, having such a deep love and protection for their country, and that despite how painful it is that they are willing to give up so much and take a chance (risk) for the sake of their future?
I have heard a lot about what solutions and actions the left are offering but I haven't heard much about what the right is proposing? Could someone please direct me to a book or site, or could explain (in an objective and respectful way) on what those realistic options are that would be even partially acceptable by all parties?
I know this might comes across very naive and simplistic but I am hoping that with more of these types of non-provoking and intellectual exchanges from people like yourself and Lisoosh, some new insight will be taken away.
Posted by: ali | Jan 15, 2006 1:11:03 AM
Ali - what do you mean by "acceptable to all parties"?
Currently, Palestinian factions are competing for votes by trying to show how much they hate the Israelis. There is no party with a platform that explicitly embraces coexistence. Hamas - a terrorist organization - is likely to sweep the elections, largely based on a bald assertion that they will throw the Jews into the sea - an assertion backed up by bloody action.
If you include these "parties" in your calculation - I don't think you'll find a solution acceptable them and to Israelis!
15 years ago, the dreamers of Oslo assured the rest of us that Arafat had to "talk tough" just a leeeeeetle bit longer to get "the Arab street" on his side. We're still waiting.
Currently, it's been over 5 years since Palestinian Arabs "suffered" under the the Israeli "occupation" - and the rhetoric of destroying Israel is, if anything, stronger than ever.
Conclusions of fact must be drawn from the past 2 decades. The Palis have concluded - after a decade of concessions by Israelis intent on "understanding" Pali pain - that Israel is weak.
What have the dreamers of Oslo concluded? What is the summing up? We are talking about the lives of millions of people. There must be a reckoning with events - and an admission of failure. And yes, indeed, that means that milk-and-cookies notions of "tolerance" and "hearing each other" must at some point give way to "insulting" and "divisive" questions about what really worked, what failed, what has been proven right and what has been proven wrong.
Posted by: Ben-David | Jan 15, 2006 11:10:14 AM
Tnspr569... That is too involved a question to answer on one foot. Read back a few weeks in the archives or google hilltop youth and you should have a pretty good idea.
Val... Very nice... you made my wife cry with your birthday blog post (ya big bully!). :-)
Jack... Yeah, I'll go ahead and try that, because the Israeli police have exhibited a really well-developed sense of humor when it comes to my crowd. I'll be sure to drop you a note from jail or the hospital. :-)
Doctor Bean... I kinda expected you to have a ceramic Reagan-head cookie jar (since you seem to feel that all the good things in the world came out of the real thing). :-)
Seth... Fair question. First of all I would gladly make a donation to a legal fund if I didn't think it was going to be used exclusively to bail protesters out of jail. Next, I have suggested in many emails to the community and Yesh(a) leadership that they abandon a direct confrontational strategy and embrace the legal avenues that have been serving the lawyers so well. So far I have gotten no responses. Lastly, I recognise that many of the people who are essentially engaging in a form of street theater when they protest and confront the authorities will lose their relevance once the lawyers take over the fight... and these people are not ready to let go of the spotlight. Hope that helps.
jg... That is somewhat outside the scope of what I had in mind, but if you can frame the photo tastefully with cookies or cake clearly visible... I'll gladly publish a pic of your open oven. The same goes for you people who keep your good stuff in the pantry as if it were just another kind of food!
Irina... This goes back to an earlier post I wrote where I echoed Joe Settler's sentiments that perhaps the significant energy of the youth movements could be channeled in a more constructive direction (letter-writing campaigns, petitions, etc.). I honestly am very uncomfortable with the 'us vs them' mentality many of the kids have developed regarding both the police and the army. This is not to say they should embrace the government's position of the Arabs always being right and the evil settlers always being in the wrong. I just think that if protest and confrontation in the street is proving ineffective... it is time to move the fight into the courts.
Essie... A picture of some Stella Doros in the freezer would be acceptable. :-)
Scott... thank you for showing restraint. :-)
Lisoosh & Ben David... You two have laid out your positions fairly clearly. I can't add much to either of your comments without repeating things that have already been said. I'll only say that I think you are both guilty of somewhat oversimplifying a very complex issue... and that I tend to side with Ben David when it comes to the issue of the left making even a token acknowledgement of what has and hasn't worked over the past 10 years. While I agree that the right has not done a good job of enunciating a detailed picture of how they see things playing out as a result of their (as yet, untried) policies... the left has had ample opportunities to see the results of their ideas play out in the field with disastrous results. The big question 'what now?' doesn't seem to occur to anyone, right or left.
Shevy... OK, I'll go along with that. So you just leave them out in the box? You don't have a special place where you put them???
Ali... Well said. Where have you been hiding? :-)
Posted by: treppenwitz | Jan 15, 2006 2:05:16 PM
Lisoosh:
I, too, admire the law. I wish it were decided democratically and enforced impartially here in Israel - and I volunteer with/donate to organizations that are trying to raise consciousness here in Israel, and change the system.
Certainly taking things before the courts is important - and sisyphean, and quixotic. But in the current situation, continued outpost activity is also important - as an answer to the game of intimidation that is being played.
These are the realities of political protest and change.
Posted by: Ben-David | Jan 15, 2006 6:03:25 PM
"I kinda expected you to have a ceramic Reagan-head cookie jar"
That's the best idea I've heard in months. I have to get me one.
Posted by: Doctor Bean | Jan 15, 2006 6:07:28 PM
I feel a bit sad because I think that without actually meeting (eventually) there is only so much that can be discussed.
I've certainly learned from my dealings with the "right". Number one would be to approach the side of the Palestinians with a great deal more cynisism than I previously did. I think the argument that there is "no-one to talk to" has a great deal of merit and actually this was reinforced to some degree by a Palestinian journalist who pointed out the incredibly fractured and tribal nature of their society. So don't think that you haven't changed the way I think, you have.
You did make an interesting comment. What "untried" policies of the "right" are you talking about? (Ben-David, I know your answer.)
I don't have a cookie jar.
Posted by: Lisoosh | Jan 15, 2006 6:49:22 PM
Dr. Bean:
What "untried" policies of the "right" are you talking about?
Try this on for size:
http://therightroadtopeace.com/
Posted by: JoeSettler | Jan 15, 2006 10:28:58 PM
JoeSettler -
(it wasn't Dr. Bean who asked it was me.)
Thank You. A nice straight answer, probably the first I have heard in a long time. And it fits into the parameters I mentioned over a month ago - that there are really only 4 choices in how to move forward.
I did notice a disparity between the English and Hebrew versions so I will take time to read both.
Posted by: Lisoosh | Jan 16, 2006 12:26:46 AM
Jack... Yeah, I'll go ahead and try that, because the Israeli police have exhibited a really well-developed sense of humor when it comes to my crowd. I'll be sure to drop you a note from jail or the hospital. :-)
David,
Should that ever take place have Zahava call me and I'll airlift an order of Jeff's Sausages to you.
Posted by: Jack | Jan 16, 2006 12:56:41 AM
OK, so I'm a goober. The picture of the girls with the vines got me choked up.
Posted by: Alice | Jan 16, 2006 2:24:52 AM
Jack... Thanks, but something tells me that if that neither Jail nor hospital will have cooking facilities. :-)
Alice... Don't feel bad... I took the picture and I got a lump in my throat as well.
Posted by: treppenwitz | Jan 16, 2006 10:46:09 AM
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