Comments on A question of serviceTypePad2005-08-30T05:18:00ZDavid Bognerhttps://www.treppenwitz.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.treppenwitz.com/2005/08/a_question_of_s/comments/atom.xml/David commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e979e88332005-09-05T21:21:44Z2008-02-14T04:39:52ZDavidhttp://www.treppenwitz.comMuse... Don't forget that many girls have stumbled upon their careers while doing shirut leumi also. Otherwise I agree with...<p>Muse... Don't forget that many girls have stumbled upon their careers while doing shirut leumi also. Otherwise I agree with your comment 100%.</p>muse commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8d6188332005-09-04T08:22:42Z2008-02-14T04:38:07Zmusehttp://shilohmusings.blogspot.com/First Sherut Le'umi isn't copping out; it's frequently tougher than similar army jobs. When my girls were in SL, they...<p>First Sherut Le'umi isn't copping out; it's frequently tougher than similar army jobs. When my girls were in SL, they had less pay and extras than teacher-soldiers.<br />
The army can be a real career; we have a relative, female officer, with hat, though her skirt isn't as long as the one described.</p>
<p>Most important is to think of your wonderful young daughter who is planning a patriotic future rather than a playdate with Barbies.</p>Essie commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8e4b88332005-08-31T12:59:20Z2008-02-14T04:38:14ZEssieI know she won't always be so interested in what I think so I had better enjoy it while I...<p><i>I know she won't always be so interested in what I think so I had better enjoy it while I can! :-)</i></p>
<p>You got that right! As long as you realize it now and you won't be caught off guard when it starts... :)<br />
</p>kakarizz commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e55052183288342005-08-31T11:44:10Z2008-02-14T04:37:57Zkakarizzhttp://kakarizz.blogspot.comThanks Rahel, I've tried applying for the Sar-El program.....never went too well, there was 'no' representative from my country, so...<p>Thanks Rahel, I've tried applying for the Sar-El program.....never went too well, there was 'no' representative from my country, so I had to bite the dust. Believe me I’ve tried almost all youth programs related to experiencing and supporting Israel; either they’re mainly for North American youth or (when I was successful) no visa! from the Ministry of Interior, same old high-handed bureaucratic system ..... I can't help but interact with Israelis with this powerful tool called the Internet from this side of the <em>Sahara</em> and only of course, from a distance. </p>
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</p>Rahel commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8e0d88332005-08-31T10:22:11Z2008-02-14T04:38:13ZRahelhttp://elmsintheyard.blogspot.comKakarizz, they can. I don't remember where you're posting from, but are you familiar with the Sar-El program, also known...<p>Kakarizz, they can. I don't remember where you're posting from, but are you familiar with <a href="http://www.sar-el.org/" rel="nofollow">the Sar-El program</a>, also known as Volunteers for Israel? Foreign nationals can volunteer on an army base, in a hospital, on a kibbutz or at an archaeological site. Religion and background are not issues. I did this program several times and loved it. I served at various army bases doing low-level tasks such as cleaning equipment and sorting bolts, but I worked alongside soldiers and got to know a bit about Israeli culture. Also, the program is not all work and no play; it includes classes and trips throughout the country.<br />
</p>kakarizz commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8ccc88332005-08-31T07:57:14Z2008-02-14T04:38:02Zkakarizzhttp://kakarizz.blogspot.comI agree. If only young foreign nationals with no Jewish background could serve in the IDF…… I’d be first on...<p>I agree. If only young foreign nationals with no Jewish background could serve in the IDF…… I’d be first on the queue <em>No questions asked</em> :)</p>David commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550521a9988342005-08-31T06:16:01Z2008-02-14T04:38:20ZDavidhttp://www.treppenwitz.comkakarizz... You might be right, but I have a feeling it might also have something to do with the fact...<p>kakarizz... You might be right, but I have a feeling it might also have something to do with the fact that there is no second chance if we lose. The price of losing a war for Israel is destruction and exile.</p>kakarizz commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8cd688332005-08-31T05:46:35Z2008-02-14T04:38:03Zkakarizzhttp://kakarizz.blogspot.comIf you ask me, this high-handed bureaucratic system in National service is what gets Israel the best damn soldiers in...<p>If you ask me, this high-handed bureaucratic system in National service is what gets Israel the best damn soldiers in the world.</p>David commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e550521aaa88342005-08-30T21:45:47Z2008-02-14T04:38:21ZDavidhttp://www.treppenwitz.comSarah... I won't be asking anybody since it is not my issue. When the time comes I will suggest that...<p>Sarah... I won't be asking anybody since it is not my issue. When the time comes I will suggest that <em>she</em> speak with one of the Rabbis in the army since they are best able to give advice and information about halachic issues related to women in the army. </p>
<p>Essie... i don't know if it is normal for girls to be talking to each other about such things at this age, but I am very flattered that she is interested to know what I think about the decision. I know she won't always be so interested in what I think so I had better enjoy it while I can! :-)</p>
<p>Daniel... Yes, the army needs administrative people (jobniks) as much as they need combat soldiers. However, everyone agrees that there are many more women than the army really needs for general staffing purposes and as a result far too many of them end up serving as secretaries and coffee servers to male soldiers not much more senior than they are. Given that kind of service or a year or two making a real difference in a hospital or development town somewhere... I think we can agree that it makes more sense to go where the need is greatest. My only hesitation is that I think it would be fair to allow secular girls the choice as well though.</p>
<p>Tonny... Thanks, I'll tell her you said so. :-)</p>
<p>Jaime... Just so you don't think it was such a difficult thing to do... I enjoy talking to the hitchhikers who join me several days a week. As an immigrant, I find they are a priceless source of cultural information. Thanks for the compliment, though. :-)</p>Jaime commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e55052181b88342005-08-30T19:20:59Z2008-02-14T04:37:56ZJaimehttp://spaces.msn.com/members/oldsoulI made aliyah to Israel when I was 16 and was very worried about having to join the army. As...<p>I made aliyah to Israel when I was 16 and was very worried about having to join the army. As I got a little older and closer to the reality that I may have to serve, I definitely wanted to do Shirut Leumi if I could have had the choice. As Daniel just mentioned, I knew that each and every job in the Army was neccessary, even making copies and getting coffee, but I didn't speak the language and I would rather be giving back by doing actual, hands-on community service then boring, office (and not to mention chauvenistic tasks, i.e. making and serving coffee.) I wasn't religious so I have no idea how I would have been able to do Shirut Leumi, but in the end, I returned back to the States to attend college, and was never called to service.</p>
<p>What a great dad you are for taking her concerns seriously and doing all that research. If she is this bright now, I am sure she will do well with whatever choice she makes when she is 18.</p>Tonny commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8ca388332005-08-30T17:47:06Z2008-02-14T04:38:00ZTonnyhttp://karbannesanel.blogspot.comim not surprised at all that arielle asked this question, she is a very bright girl. i know she'll make...<p>im not surprised at all that arielle asked this question, she is a very bright girl. i know she'll make the right decision.</p>Daniel commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e937288332005-08-30T15:15:54Z2008-02-14T04:39:20ZDanielhttp://daniel-chavi.blogspot.com/David, if you can explain something to me: I thought that when someone decides to join the IDF they are...<p>David, if you can explain something to me: I thought that when someone decides to join the IDF they are making a statement about joining the army for whatever the army needs from them not simply pursuing "harpatka'ah." The army needs many people to maintain the infrastucture. Without the "jobniks" the cool positions couldn't function either. It is understandable given a choice one would go for the most fufilling army position, however if the IDF needs them for something else, I don't think it is right to bail out. I am not sayin sheirut Leumi is bailing out, but it should be an a priori choice. Imagine the same argument for a boy in yeshiva. He is not sure if he should learn for 3 years (defer normal army service) or serve. One would hope his decision would be based on introspection and guidance not if he got into sayeret matkal or not. But hey, I am not there, tell me if I am crazy. </p>Essie commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8e7f88332005-08-30T14:11:59Z2008-02-14T04:38:16ZEssieWow. What major decisions for such young girls. Kol hakavod that at the age of 12 she already knows that...<p>Wow. What major decisions for such young girls. Kol hakavod that at the age of 12 she already knows that she wants to serve her country. That's a special young lady you got there!</p>Sarah commented on 'A question of service'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef00e5503e8d3188332005-08-30T10:20:30Z2008-02-14T04:38:06ZSarahhttp://www.chayyeisarah.blogspot.comThanks so much for posting this, David. I've often wondered what I might encourage my own daughters, someday, to do...<p>Thanks so much for posting this, David. I've often wondered what I might encourage my own daughters, someday, to do or not do.</p>
<p>I'm curious to know whether, as an Orthodox Jew, you plan to ask any rabbis about their thoughts on the matter. Just wondering. It's interesting to see how people make these decisions.</p>