Comments on What would you have done? [updated]TypePad2010-10-10T07:10:43ZDavid Bognerhttps://www.treppenwitz.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.treppenwitz.com/2010/10/what-would-you-have-done/comments/atom.xml/Tanya commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f5063c17970b2010-10-13T01:43:21Z2010-10-13T01:43:21ZTanyahttp://www.banzaiaphrodite.comCan't help wondering how many of them are yelling "pretend to be dead! pretend to be dead!"<p>Can't help wondering how many of them are yelling "pretend to be dead! pretend to be dead!"</p>Dina commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134881f62c8970c2010-10-12T03:48:41Z2010-10-12T03:48:41ZDinaIs it just me and my vivid imagination? Or does the second video show blood on the white rag that...<p>Is it just me and my vivid imagination?<br />
Or does the second video show blood on the white rag that is being pushed on the boy as he is forced into the car? </p>Marsha in Englewood commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4fe4330970b2010-10-11T22:35:31Z2010-10-11T22:35:31ZMarsha in EnglewoodSorry, but once the "pedestrian" picks up the rock, the title pedestrian no longer applies. Let's substitute the correct word...<p>Sorry, but once the "pedestrian" picks up the rock, the title pedestrian no longer applies. Let's substitute the correct word - terrorist, or attacker. And like when the game is taking place in an American League park and the rules are different, same thing applies here. The driver no longer has to apply the rules of Western civilization, because these "people" are living in the Middle Ages. Act accordingly. If it's kill or be killed, the TORAH directs us to kill.</p>sheldan commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134881dfed8970c2010-10-11T22:34:25Z2010-10-11T22:34:25ZsheldanI think that photo was in the Commercial Appeal (my local paper in Memphis) today. I think it's a matter...<p>I think that photo was in the Commercial Appeal (my local paper in Memphis) today. I think it's a matter of time before there is considerable media commentary (without the proper context, of course...).</p>LeahGG commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134881d5efe970c2010-10-11T20:28:19Z2010-10-11T20:28:19ZLeahGGhttp://trilcat.blogspot.comI think if you can, you back up, because why would you drive into that? but I don't think that...<p>I think if you can, you back up, because why would you drive into that? <br />
but I don't think that you have any obligation to protect people who are actively attacking you.</p>weese commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134881ce2b1970c2010-10-11T18:55:57Z2010-10-11T18:55:57Zweesehttp://weese.blogspot.comyeah i would have backed up. ...well i meant after i had hit the kid :) ok, fine - I...<p>yeah i would have backed up.<br />
...well i meant after i had hit the kid :)</p>
<p>ok, fine - I am being evil in my joking.</p>
<p>Actually, I would have been driving like a mad woman to get out of there and probably, and not intentionally, hit many more people.</p>Ed commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef01348818d0fd970c2010-10-11T00:28:00Z2010-10-11T00:28:00ZEdWhether bullets or rocks(both can be fatal), the worst thing is slowing down or coming to a stop. Throwing rocks...<p>Whether bullets or rocks(both can be fatal), the worst thing is slowing down or coming to a stop. Throwing rocks the size of baseballs indicate the intent to kill.</p>Israelinurse commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4f8b1c5970b2010-10-10T22:31:17Z2010-10-10T22:31:17ZIsraelinurseI encountered a similar situation to this one (though media-free and with more, older attackers in their late teens/early twenties)...<p>I encountered a similar situation to this one (though media-free and with more, older attackers in their late teens/early twenties) near Beit Sahour on the first day of the first Intifada. Fortunately, I wasn't driving. My colleague who was had the presence of mind to just put his foot down as hard and fast as possible. Had he hesitated, I very much doubt that either of us (or my daughter - I was 8 months pregnant at the time) would have been here today. </p>Chantal commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4f89863970b2010-10-10T21:58:48Z2010-10-10T21:58:48ZChantalI probably would have given myself 10 points for every one I could hit.<p>I probably would have given myself 10 points for every one I could hit. </p>Mike Spengler commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4f7bac0970b2010-10-10T17:21:23Z2010-10-10T17:21:23ZMike SpenglerA video that raises more questions than any answers implied here. 1). Who was in the red car at the...<p> A video that raises more questions than any answers implied here. </p>
<p> 1). Who was in the red car at the beginning, and why was a kid about to make a throwing motion, then stops?</p>
<p> 2). The kid who leaps on the hood, somersaults and falls appears to be not obviously severely injured. Indeed, he appears to be resisting pretty strongly at being placed in the suv backseat. Curious in and of itself...</p>
<p> 3). David, you use the phrase "media cameraman." Yet the logo at the very start of the video is "facebook." <br />
You have a number of times in the past placed the "media" as a source of blame for a bit of this activity. Recognize here and now that technology has created this phony, incomplete aura of "citizen journalism." Are all these folks with cameras accredited members of professional news outlets? Maybe some- and perhaps there are those who are freelance "stringers" who sell their footage to media outlets. And thus egg these kids on for their own profit.</p>
<p> But youtube, Facebook etc. has created something of a monster. Now anyone with an i-whatever can claim "journalist" status. Without any training, discipline, judgement or restraint. And therefore they can create situations ("Go on! Throw it! Screw CNN! You'll be on youtube and can watch it with your buddies- guaranteed!") that absolutely no reporter for the NY Times, Ha'aretz, Jerusalem Post, Reuters, CNN, whoever would countenance doing. And it probably wouldn't pass any responsible editors' "smell test." </p>
<p> Yet... we too quickly and easily lump these folks under the all-encompassing phrase "the media." And instead of sober reflection and conclusions based on judgement and careful study of the facts, we make assumptions. </p>
<p> I realize that this response has veered in a different direction than your original question. I can't imagine that I would do anything differently than the driver as shown. And I suspect that the Israeli police- if they're at all reasonable- upon review of the footage would recognize that as well. </p>
<p> As always David, stay safe...</p>
<p> Mike Spengler </p>
<p> </p>a. commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4f764cf970b2010-10-10T15:25:17Z2010-10-10T15:25:17Za.P.B. I'd like to know... who ordered the media people to the scene? It looks so unspectacular a location, someone...<p>P.B. I'd like to know... who ordered the media people to the scene? It looks so unspectacular a location, someone must have tipped them off.<br />
And where is Green Helmet Guy when one needs some extra drama anyways? I'm sure he would have been the cherry on top of the icing.</p>
<p>(Do I sound very sarcastic.)</p>a. commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013488172557970c2010-10-10T15:21:13Z2010-10-10T15:21:13Za.The boy did run towards the car, but it doesn't look like an attempt to actually (plannedly) jump onto it....<p>The boy did run towards the car, but it doesn't look like an attempt to actually (plannedly) jump onto it. The boy was just not thinking, too concerned to somehow go after a yellow license plate and hit/smash/attack/provoke/damage it by all means, that he "forgot" that you just don't approach a moving car frontally. Stupid child, heated up by the stupid mob of boys and teenagers, ratio totally dropped in the gutter. His parents should be sent to jail... no, really. They are legally in charge of his wellbeing, and allowing him out in the streets, all masked up (is it legal in Israel anyways?), is not exactly covered by the concept of "well being". Or is it in East Jerusalem?</p>
<p>I'd LOVE if someone could actually translate what the mob is shouting... my Arabic is too basic to understand the cries.</p>Jordan Hirsch commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4f741c0970b2010-10-10T14:42:56Z2010-10-10T14:42:56ZJordan HirschWhat should also be noted is the state of the rear window, which is visible for a second as the...<p>What should also be noted is the state of the rear window, which is visible for a second as the car drove away. Pretty smashed up. Also, it was clear from the way the car was swerving before the accident that it had already gotten pretty difficult for the driver.</p>Raizy commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0133f4f72e3f970b2010-10-10T14:16:46Z2010-10-10T14:16:46ZRaizyhttp://superraizy.blogspot.comAfter reading Shoshana's comment, I watched the video again 3 times and she's right. It does seem as if the...<p>After reading Shoshana's comment, I watched the video again 3 times and she's right. It does seem as if the boy ran straight toward the car and then jumped up on it. I've heard accounts in the past of "journalists" encouraging Palestinians to stage incidents in which it would appear that they were injured by Israeli soldiers. Could something similar have happened here? </p>Shoshana commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef01348816e04b970c2010-10-10T13:56:43Z2010-10-10T13:56:43ZShoshanaDid the victim jump onto the hood of the car? I watched the video twice and it looks like it...<p>Did the victim jump onto the hood of the car? I watched the video twice and it looks like it from a certain angle. Could this have been a planned accident? Notice also that the victim looses his face mask and becomes a little boy pretty quickly.</p>
<p>Maybe I'm just being unjustifiably cynical.</p>debbie commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef01348816c3cd970c2010-10-10T13:08:52Z2010-10-10T13:08:52Zdebbiei suppose that james bond-esque factory installed pepper spray/mace dispensers both front and rear are not an option? i'd say...<p>i suppose that james bond-esque factory installed pepper spray/mace dispensers both front and rear are not an option? i'd say go for the flame throwers, but that would look bad on camera...i have no idea what i would do in a situation like that - skidding on ice here at home is enough to make me woozy...luckily the attacker - i mean protester - had enough energy to argue about being put in the car (i assume he was screaming that he wanted to get out and have some more fun rather than wasting the afternoon in the emergency room?) and hopefully suffered nothing more than a few bruises from his brush with fame. </p>
<p>now. what is one REALLY supposed to do in an instance like this? and what did happen legally to the driver?</p>treppenwitz commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef01348816a6fd970c2010-10-10T12:30:13Z2010-10-10T12:30:13Ztreppenwitzhttp://www.treppenwitz.comFreddy... You make a couple of good points. As far as backing up, I'm not sure the dirver had time...<p>Freddy... You make a couple of good points. As far as backing up, I'm not sure the dirver had time (not clear from the film) but it begs the questions, should he have had to if the possibility existed? Doing a three (or more) point turn would have given the attackers a few seconds of easy access to a mostly stationary target. To what extent are we obligated to avoid hurting others if it will increase the risk to ourselves? Just thinking out loud. Oh, I also wanted to mention that the version of the film found in the post I linked to at the end is carefully edited to minimize the stone throwing and maximize the interaction of the car and the boy.</p>Freddy commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0134881699a5970c2010-10-10T12:14:26Z2010-10-10T12:14:26ZFreddyOh, and the driver didn't leave the scene of an accident. He left the scene of an attack. I don't...<p>Oh, and the driver didn't leave the scene of an accident. He left the scene of an attack. I don't know the nuances of Israeli traffic laws, but there should be a difference.<br />
</p>Freddy commented on 'What would you have done? [updated]'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef013488169919970c2010-10-10T12:13:14Z2010-10-10T12:13:14ZFreddyI watched the video a couple of times. The driver did about as well as he could have done. If...<p>I watched the video a couple of times. The driver did about as well as he could have done. If he had been to a driving school that taught about evading rock throwers, then I guess there was a better way to handle it. Driving straight through sounds safer for both parties. I don't think there is such a driving school.</p>
<p>But the video doesn't enable us to reconstruct the driver's thinking. The core events happened so fast that the driver had to react, not to plan.</p>
<p>The video doesn't show us whether backing up was a realistic option.<br />
</p>