Comments on 'Tis the SaisonTypePad2009-11-03T15:51:22ZDavid Bognerhttps://www.treppenwitz.com/tag:typepad.com,2003:https://www.treppenwitz.com/2009/11/tis-the-saison-once-again/comments/atom.xml/Sonal commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a665818e970b2009-11-09T11:24:43Z2009-11-09T11:24:43ZSonalVery interesting and informative post, David. Look forward to more such posts that give us insight into Jewish/Israeli history and...<p>Very interesting and informative post, David. Look forward to more such posts that give us insight into Jewish/Israeli history and politics. When are you back in Bombay?</p>Mark commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a65d4202970b2009-11-06T18:54:55Z2009-11-06T18:54:55ZMarkNachum Lamm - They kept firing right-wingers well after the state was established, by the way. And in a workforce...<p><i>Nachum Lamm - They kept firing right-wingers well after the state was established, by the way. And in a workforce that was virtually all Histadrut, that also meant you couldn't get a job if your opinions weren't PC.</i></p>
<p>This is quite true. One of the reasons why my grandfather (along with his wife and children) left Israel in the early 50's is because he was too much of a Yekke and an individualist (certainly with many non-PC opinions, and the guts to state them publicly) to kowtow to the Histadrut to get a decent job.<br />
</p>Ruth commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6568d0d970b2009-11-05T14:49:03Z2009-11-05T14:49:03ZRuthhttp://beer7.wordpress.comDavid, you proabably meant something like this? http://www.haloscan.com/comments/yonathanbert/276868854297805851/ Yes, this also makes me angry!<p>David, you proabably meant something like this? http://www.haloscan.com/comments/yonathanbert/276868854297805851/</p>
<p>Yes, this also makes me angry!</p>Batya commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6aaeaee970c2009-11-05T06:55:29Z2009-11-05T06:55:29ZBatyahttp://shilohmusings.blogspot.comYes, the sezon continues and the Moshiach still waits.<p>Yes, the sezon continues and the Moshiach still waits.</p>The Hedyot commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6554dcf970b2009-11-05T05:11:22Z2009-11-05T05:11:22ZThe Hedyothttp://daashedyot.blogspot.com/Forgive me, I know this is totally off topic, but since I can't find an email link I'm posting this...<p>Forgive me, I know this is totally off topic, but since I can't find an email link I'm posting this here. It's something I think you'll really enjoy:<br />
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2009/11/04/us/politics/20091104_BEES_SS1/index.html</p>lrg commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a652a3d9970b2009-11-04T14:33:53Z2009-11-04T14:33:53ZlrgTrep, your could refer to Meretz and the Arab parties in the present tense.<p>Trep, your could refer to Meretz and the Arab parties in the present tense.</p>Anon commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a80fbc970c2009-11-04T14:30:22Z2009-11-04T14:30:22ZAnonDavid - I'm not talking about any conspiracy theory - simple facts. Here's an old NY Times article from before...<p>David - I'm not talking about any conspiracy theory - simple facts. Here's an old NY Times article from before Raviv's trial uncovered more information:<br />
http://www.nytimes.com/1999/04/26/world/ex-undercover-agent-charged-as-a-link-in-rabin-killing.html</p>
<p>The GSS wanted to paint the Right negatively and used an undercover operative to do it - and it worked - before the assassination. And this operative made the environment even more poisonous than it was.</p>treppenwitz commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a651f4bd970b2009-11-04T08:37:53Z2009-11-04T08:37:53Ztreppenwitzhttp://www.treppenwitz.comIlana-Davita ... So sad but so true. Tehillah... On the contrary. I didn't mean to imply that disagreement and/or dissent...<p>Ilana-Davita ... So sad but so true.</p>
<p>Tehillah... On the contrary. I didn't mean to imply that disagreement and/or dissent is to be avoided. There is just a more civil way to go about it so ideas can be exchanged... instead of blows or shots.</p>
<p>lrg... The Arab parties and even Meretz have expressed far more racist and inflammatory rhetoric than Kahana ever did.</p>
<p>Raz... Sadly, those in power get to write the history books.</p>
<p>Nachum Lamm... I once saw him speak while I was at Hebrew U. He began his speech with "Welcome Jews and dogs". Not exactly a way to build bridges. But even that doesn't justify murder.</p>
<p>Ruth... Good point.</p>
<p>Barzilai... He was still puffed up by what Ben Gurion had said at the time about a 'Holy Cannon' having destroyed the Altalena. There are those who feel that this 'mini-civil war', even though it was entirely one-sided was necessary to 'vaccinate' the new state against a wider division. I don't subscribe to this hogwash, but there is that opinion. Clearly Rabin agreed with it... because to do otherwise would be to admit he was a cold-blooded murderer of his own people. Fratricide.</p>
<p>Anon... This has never been proven and is part of a larger conspiracy theory that the Shabak actually wanted Rabin dead (on orders from his political enemies in the government). This is a bunch of 'grassy knoll' nonsense as far as I am concerned.</p>
<p>fred... You are dead wrong and this is a dangerous part of the wider problem. The left and right have been equally horrible in the use/abuse of inflammatory language. Nazi, fascist, murderer, liar, thief... you name it and these names were used by both sides. That a right winger fired the shot is a coincidence. It could have just as easily been a left winger or an Arab killing a political enemy. Political discourse in Israel is dangerous. SO long as people delude themselves into thinking that only one side ratcheted up the rhetoric the problem will never be fixed.</p>fred commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a6e524970c2009-11-04T04:17:42Z2009-11-04T04:17:42Zfredthe amorphous right does bear some responsibility for the death of rabin. rhetoric ratcheted up to dangerous levles -- 'bogged,'...<p>the amorphous right does bear some responsibility for the death of rabin. rhetoric ratcheted up to dangerous levles -- 'bogged,' for example -- should have been avoided at all costs. </p>Anon commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a650c3de970b2009-11-03T23:23:08Z2009-11-03T23:23:08ZAnonIt's worth remembering that Amir was, in part, encouraged into his act by Avishai Raviv, who had been sent out...<p>It's worth remembering that Amir was, in part, encouraged into his act by Avishai Raviv, who had been sent out by Rabin's own government agency the Shin Bet to stir things up and make the Right look bad for political purposes.</p>Barzilai commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6507d30970b2009-11-03T21:41:42Z2009-11-03T21:41:42ZBarzilaiI don't understand what that means, that Rabin was quoted as saying the Altalena affair was one of his life's...<p>I don't understand what that means, that Rabin was quoted as saying the Altalena affair was one of his life's proudest moments. Can someone explain that to me? I don't mean this sarcastically or ironically, I just can't believe, or understand, that anyone but a delusional or a drunk could have said that. I must be missing some historical information.</p>Ruth commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a5984e970c2009-11-03T20:22:28Z2009-11-03T20:22:28ZRuthhttp://beer7.wordpress.comThis year I attended our school's memorial event. Our school belongs to the Meitarim schools, where children from different background...<p>This year I attended our school's memorial event. Our school belongs to the Meitarim schools, where children from different background - orthodox, maorti, chiloni - learn together. The school's rav was aware of the potentially divise nature of the Rabin memorial and he managed to pass a strong message against hate and strive among ourselves. </p>
<p>By the way he did NOT object to disagreeing even while raising your voice! I think it is a mistake to frame "violence" so wide that anything but the most polite agree to disagree can be defined as violence. </p>Nachum Lamm commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a578f5970c2009-11-03T19:52:50Z2009-11-03T19:52:50ZNachum LammThey kept firing right-wingers well after the state was established, by the way. And in a workforce that was virtually...<p>They kept firing right-wingers well after the state was established, by the way. And in a workforce that was virtually all Histadrut, that also meant you couldn't get a job if your opinions weren't PC.</p>
<p>Speaking about "a week before killed," see the YouTube video of R' Kahane at Brandeis and how he's treated.</p>Raz commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a64fbb08970b2009-11-03T18:42:39Z2009-11-03T18:42:39ZRazPolitical assassination is never acceptable, but the left-wing conveniently forgets that the Haganah committed the first assassination in 1924 when...<p>Political assassination is never acceptable, but the left-wing conveniently forgets that the Haganah committed the first assassination in 1924 when they murdered De Haan.</p>
<p>Tragic events can serve as a rallying cry for unity or as a catalyst for further estrangement. It depresses me to no end to see how Rabin's murder is being used and abused.</p>lrg commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a52941970c2009-11-03T18:36:35Z2009-11-03T18:36:35ZlrgI join in everything that David has related. Yigal Amir killed Rabin, not the amorphous right. If anyone thinks that...<p>I join in everything that David has related. Yigal Amir killed Rabin, not the amorphous right. </p>
<p>If anyone thinks that the political opposition of the right to him was universal in its hatred, let me add a personal memory. A week before Rabin was assassinated, a visiting talmid chacham was at our schul and was taking questions. A questioner said something derogatory about the PM. Although the talmid chacham was politically opposed to Rabin as was the audience, he stopped questioner short. He raised his voice and said that we must never forget the debt of gratitude that we owe to Rabin for his service to Israel. I will never forget the moment. A week later Rabin was dead.</p>Tehillah commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a51e36970c2009-11-03T18:23:01Z2009-11-03T18:23:01ZTehillahhttp://AlmostEden.co.il"a Jew must never raise a _hand_ against Jew" Or a voice, pen, keyboard... May Mashiach come soon to save...<p>"a Jew must never raise a _hand_ against Jew"</p>
<p>Or a voice, pen, keyboard...</p>
<p>May Mashiach come soon to save us from ourselves!</p>Ilana-Davita commented on ''Tis the Saison'tag:typepad.com,2003:6a00d8341c581e53ef0120a6a50eb9970c2009-11-03T18:07:08Z2009-11-03T18:07:08ZIlana-Davitahttp://ilanadavita.wordpress.com/An interesting - albeit disheartening post - that gives me insight into Israeli political life. Unfortunately the attitude you describe...<p>An interesting - albeit disheartening post - that gives me insight into Israeli political life. Unfortunately the attitude you describe in Israeli politics (i.e. <em>anyone who does not share your point of view is your enemy</em> is also to be found in Jewish religious life where we spend far too much time and energy going at each other's throats than striving towards some kind of unity.</p>